It's by Ruth Bernhard, who is one of the great women photographers of the nude. She is 98 years old now. An amazing woman.

It's "naked woman as landscape."

She met Edward Weston on the beach by accident in Santa Monica during the 1930s. He encouraged her. She said, "I'm a woman. I can't be a photographer." He said, "Yes, you can." She'll go down in history as one of the great female interpreters of the nude. And I asked her, "What was the difference between a woman taking a nude of a woman and a man taking a nude?" She said, "I'm much more gentle. I approach it in a much more gentle, natural way than any man."

To this day, this is one of my great regrets: When I was a photographer I went out with a beautiful woman named Marsha. I took photographs of her wearing a black slip, but I never went further because I wanted to be an artist. I couldn't imagine keeping my pure artistic vision if she was naked.

You're a sensitive man.

Ha! Well, 20 years later I think, "You idiot! You could have had nude photographs of Marsha."

Where is Marsha now? Try and find her. I wonder how she looks.

Have you ever taken photographs?

I take bad photographs of my children. I don't think I have any talent. I've done a lot of what I call photo aerobics: I look at photos all day long, and breathe them. And I think I've trained my eye to tell a good image from a bad one.

[Turning to a page] Well, I suppose Edward Steichen started the whole "naked woman as landscape."

Steichen and Stieglitz were pretty randy guys. They loved being around women. And they were great photographers. I suppose they are the great photographers of the nude. You look at Stieglitz's images of O'Keeffe. And it's as good as it gets. And then that Willie Ronis [photograph of a naked woman sitting on a chair], who is one of my favorites. He's 92 now. The way the light hits her shoulder, it's very Dutch-painting. Beautiful. Tender. The fact that she's shot from behind, you don't see her face. The shadows! The light! The body! It's one of the great nudes.

Who took the first photograph of a naked woman?

If you go to the Metropolitan Museum now, there is an exhibition of French daguerreotypes from 1839, 1840. There are some very interesting daguerreotypes of nudes. I suppose 1840 is the first time that a guy like you would get a woman to take her clothes off and pose for you.

Were they considered girlie pictures or art back then?

Some of them are very erotic. There are, like, two women together, you know. [He squeezes his voice so he sounds like he's talking about naked women on "Monty Python."] I think they're incredibly erotic. And there is a whole cult of collectors of nude daguerreotypes.

Where do you draw the line between girlie pictures and art? Do you like Helmut Newton?

He's very "one note" for me. I think he's kind of pathetic in a way. It's just ... I wouldn't want to live with them. They're interesting to look at. They're fun. But are they great, great photographs in the way that you're talking about with a Steichen and Stieglitz? No. They're very much of a time. They're kind of voyeuristic and cheap in a way. I suppose I'm not a great Helmut Newton fan. To tell you the truth I find them kind of boring. I don't find them terribly arousing. Kitsch, you know. One-note kitsch. They're not going to withstand time. I think in 100 years or 200 years when people are talking about the history of photography they're still going to be talking about Steichen and Stieglitz, but I don't think anyone is going to be seriously talking about Helmut Newton.

So you came of age in the 1960s?

I was a '60s guy. The Beatles, and --

So you've slept with hundreds of girls?

Hundreds of people [he says sarcastically]. Yes, this is pre-disease. Pre-everything. University. We were radical. We threw paint at the American ambassador. We wanted to save the world.

When you had sex with girls in the 1960s it didn't matter that they were naked, right?

I was pretty shy then. I was shy. I wasn't David Hemmings in "Blow Up." I was, I don't know, shy.

But girls got naked all the time in the 1960s.

All the time!

So it wasn't a big deal.

No. This was the Swinging Sixties in London. This was the miniskirt. I mean, you know, I used to just sit in the university library and watch all the pretty girls walk by in their miniskirts. You know what a miniskirt felt like? It was an incredible revolution. That may be the greatest thing that ever happened to women -- the miniskirt. That was liberating. To see girls' legs -- even in the winter! In England.

They all wore underwear, right?

They wore underwear, but they had great legs. It was amazing. Ah, the '60s. I feel like we're two old guys sittin' on a park bench reminiscing.

Did you talk to these women that you slept with? Have conversations?

Yes. Yes. I keep talking about this in my interviews. When you work in an office, there are all sorts of ways of looking at a beautiful woman so she doesn't know you're looking at her -- or she may intuitively be aware, but she can't point her finger and yell, "J'accuse!" That's how we had to look at women who were going to sleep with us the in the late 1970s.

What do you think it's like now? It's harder now?

Now there are all these dizzy dames who believe oral sex isn't really sex -- I think it's back to the 1950s.

No one has time for sex now. Young people are so concerned with their careers and making it and becoming famous.

So back in the 1960s could you objectify a naked woman?

Yeah.

And that was cool?

That was cool. The 1960s were great. It was John Lennon. "All You Need Is Love."

It's like when you look at a picture of a naked movie star --

It's a double. It's not the real woman. It's not Meg Ryan. It's Meg Ryan's double.

But she's acting. Have you ever seen a photograph of a casual naked movie star?

I saw some Marilyn Monroe shots. [Pause.] I think actresses today are all surrounded by publicists. They're not allowed to be casual.

Were the Monroe pictures the ones Stern took?

Those were ... they're pretty good. Especially the ones she marked in red.

I interviewed Stern once.

He's a character, isn't he?

To this day he regrets that he could have slept with her during the shooting session, but he didn't.

He didn't sleep with Marilyn Monroe?

No. Imagine that as a regret -- you could have slept with Marilyn Monroe, but you didn't.

It's up there on the great list of missed opportunities. [He begins paging through his book.] This is Henri Cartier-Bresson. Those are his wife's legs. He's 96 and his wife Martine is 30 years younger. I love this photo. I think this is one of the sexiest photos in the book not because she has beautiful legs, but she's in a beautiful short Chanel skirt. And she's reading Proust. What more could a man want than a woman with a brain?

You're such a leg man.

I like legs. I mean, look at that. That's another great leg shot. That's a Thurston Hopkins of a couple kissing; you see the shape of her legs. And this is one of the great -- this is the "Helen of Troy shot." That shape could launch a thousand ships. He [Edouard Boubat] was obsessed with this woman. I met him before he died. There was a beautiful, small show in Paris of all of his images of Lella, who was the great love of his life -- who he never married.

Did he do any nude shots?

Yes. There are a couple of nudes. But this is the greatest one.

Of the customs of the times -- how bizarre was it that her bra is --

Black? That was it. She was a style maker. She was strong. Look at that face. It's like, "Don't mess with me. I'm gonna do whatever I want."

She's the Madonna of 1947.

With a little bit more class. Sorry, Madonna. [Pages through his book.] Jackie Kennedy has her clothes on.

Look! Cheerleaders! You gotta love 'em.

You gotta love that one. [Pause.] So you are going to promote this book as the greatest sex book about women ever made?

But these aren't sex photos.

This photo would never happen in America. This picture is backstage at the Folies Bergere in Paris. What's great about this image is the women and the men are so nonchalant. If this was in America, backstage at 42nd Street, the guys would be right on top of her. But this photo is just so casual. It's like she's naked and they're having a conversation. I love that photo. It's a great theatrical photo.

Back to naked women -- my wife and I are walking on the beach at Montauk, and there's this nude section --

Like in the South of France?

It's not an official nude beach. Of course at any kind of nude beach you're supposed to be casual.

Right. You're not really supposed to look.

Again, it's that looking without revealing that you're looking.

Did you guys go nude?

No. Of course not.

Why didn't you go nude and join them? Are you shy?

No. I've done research on nudist colonies in America that are anti-sex -- the idea that the naked body is not erotic. That's the same philosophy behind nude beaches. I don't believe in that. I believe unless you're in a hospital, the naked body should always be erotic.

Absolutely. [Pause.] Absolutely.

So again, at what historical point was there a clear distinction between art and girlie photos?

It's all in the matter of interpretation. Obviously, photographers realized there was a market for erotic photos. You're right that there is a distinction between the art photographers and the girlie photographers. Girlie photographers out to make a quick buck, I suppose.

I looked through -- for professional reasons --

Sure.

-- 15 years of Playboy centerfolds from the 1950s. You think naked women are always the same, but they aren't. The girls from the '50s have a kind of kitsch-y innocence about them. The images have aged well.

A lot of touchups, I imagine. A lot of airbrushing going on. He was a pioneer, ol' Hugh.

You don't care much for him?

No. Those are not my kind of photos. This is a very classy book. Is this an arty book, do you think?

Yes, but --

But!

A hundred years from now when Playboy is completely antique, the centerfolds from the '50s will seem like art.

Every period gets rediscovered and reinterpreted.