Saddam seems like a tyrant who is more interested in survival than in suicidal confrontations. What makes you think he would ever use his weapons of mass destruction against the U.S. or Israel, knowing the response would be fatal?
Why accept the final judgment of your question -- namely that it's all right to let him achieve his goals and get stronger in the area of weapons of mass destruction and ballistic missiles when in the past he showed that he'll use these capabilities to attack his neighbors? There is a difference between rationality and reasonable objectives. Hitler was very shrewd and rational, especially in foreign policy between 1933 and 1939. But he had a hideous objective to destroy everyone who was not Aryan. In this case, you have to distinguish between rationality and objectives. I don't accept anyone's judgment that Saddam Hussein will benignly hold onto these weapons, with no threat to use them, because he sort of likes to have them. It's a dangerous view.
Let's turn to Sept. 11. You've spent some time investigating possible Iraqi connections to the hijackers. What is there?
There are yet no smoking guns, but there are indicators that Iraq may well have been involved. First are the meeting or meetings between Mohammed Atta and [Mohammed] al-Ani of Iraqi intelligence in Prague as stated by Czech government. Second, press reports in the U.K. say that two of the other principal hijackers of Sept. 11 met with the Iraqi intelligence in the United Arab Emirates. Third, [there have been] many meetings between Iraqi intelligence and al-Qaida during the late '90s in Iraq and in Afghanistan, including the visit by Iraqi intelligence chief [Faruq] Hijazi. Four, [there are] five eyewitnesses -- three of them defectors and two of them American United Nations inspectors -- to different aspects of the training that has been taking place for years at Salman Pak on the southern edge of Baghdad. The training is separate for Iraqis and non-Iraqis to hijack an aircraft using knives. One can see an old Boeing 707 that Iraqi intelligence services used for this training on commercially available satellite reconnaissance. Again, none of these is a smoking gun, but it's the sort of evidence that adds up for those who think the link to Sept. 11 must be demonstrated. Personally, I don't think that's necessary.
A recent New York Times piece throws some doubt on the alleged meeting between Atta and an Iraqi agent in Prague. Does that undermine the argument that there might be a connection between Sept. 11 and Baghdad?
That story has been refuted by the Czech government.
Is the evidence you mention enough to indict the Iraqi regime in international law or even the court of public opinion?
There is no requirement that one does not use evidence that is hearsay. All intelligence, with very rare exceptions, is hearsay. But hearsay evidence is not admissible generally in a criminal trial. So applying criminal evidentiary standards and legal evidentiary standards to intelligence is particularly stupid. It's very important that people assess what evidence or material or information is available. For those who are interested in an Iraqi tie to Sept. 11 or to anthrax, there is some evidence. But I don't think this is necessary for the United States to decide that Iraq is a dangerous terrorist government that is working on weapons of mass destruction and that we must replace the Baathist regime there.
This is summed up as a hawkish position.
It's a wise position. It's up to the people who want to characterize it one way or the other.
Still, why do you advocate an all-out effort to topple Saddam? In the past, the U.S. dealt with him by sending occasional missiles of disapproval.
If I were to paraphrase Mr. Carville's slogan from the 1992 presidential campaign here, I'd say, "It's the regime, stupid." It makes no sense at all to simply bomb Iraq and try to take out its weapons of mass destruction and leave the regime in place. Saddam has quite cruelly hidden his weapons of mass destruction facilities underneath schools, hospitals and universities. He has also made them mobile so they can be moved around. For example, biological equipment is put within areas close to civilians. It would be extraordinarily difficult -- I think indeed impossible -- to do an effective job of taking out his facilities for weapons of mass destruction by bombing. One has to replace the regime.
There is a school of thought in Washington that argues that the best outcome for the U.S. would be a palace coup -- someone from within the regime or his own military to take over, rather than having Americans galvanize behind a military campaign.
A coup has never been a good idea in Iraq. The reason it makes no sense merely to replace him is that Iraq has never been vulnerable to a coup under his regime. He controls the people around him and when anyone seems to become at all threatening, he kills them. A palace coup is nearly impossible in Iraq.
So what are your plans for toppling the regime?
Next page: "It's important to move against him sooner rather than later"