Wrestling with evil

Maverick Governor Jesse Ventura talks about the enemy in our midst, defends Ashcroft's terror crackdown and blasts compulsory patriotism.

By King Kaufman

Dec. 17, 2001 | A former Navy SEAL, wrestler and small-time actor turned radio talk-show host turned suburban mayor, Jesse Ventura won a three-way race for Minnesota governor in 1998 and remains best known for his more nongubernatorial activities, including a Playboy interview in which he insulted organized religion and said he'd like to be reincarnated as a large brassiere and, while it lasted, doing color commentary on XFL football games.

Despite his outsize image and sometimes outlandish statements, Ventura is popular with the normally straitlaced people of Minnesota. For much of his term, his approval rating has hovered around 70 percent. With the economic downturn and a series of recent controversies, his popularity has slipped to a new low, but 53 percent of Minnesotans still approve of the job he's doing, according to a Minneapolis Star-Tribune poll earlier this month. And for a third-party candidate likely to face two opponents if he runs for reelection, 53 percent is a strong number.

Ventura has been battered of late. Like many states, Minnesota is facing a budget crisis, with the shortfall expected to be around $2 billion, and Ventura has said he may have to raise taxes. In October, some state workers struck for two weeks. The governor, a longtime critic of the public schools on accountability issues, has been battling school officials over funding levels and referenda on school levies. His disdain for the local media continues to grow -- he recently forced members of the Capitol press contingent to wear buttons that read, "Official Jackal" -- and he took a public relations hit when he jetted to Los Angeles to film a cameo appearance in a movie while the controversy over the potential shuttering of the Minnesota Twins baseball team was exploding.

He did win back some points last week with his appearance before the House Judiciary Committee, where he told baseball commissioner Bud Selig, who was claiming that baseball is in financial ruin, "I have a hard time believing it, Mr. Selig, that they're losing that kind of money and still paying the salaries they're paying. That's asinine. These people did not get the wealth that they have by being stupid."

Ventura, whose life was chronicled by Salon's own Jake Tapper in "Body Slam: The Jesse Ventura story," spoke to Salon by phone from his office in the Minnesota Capitol in St. Paul.

What do you think is the role of government in post-Sept. 11 America?

Well, I think the role of our government is pretty much what the president is doing. This was an attack on America. And not only us but an attack on the entire world if you look at who was in the World Trade Center. It wasn't just Americans in there; it was literally from dozens of countries.

This was an attack much different, even worse, as I've stated, than Pearl Harbor, because at least Pearl Harbor was an attack of military against military. In this war of terrorism it's an attack of terrorists against innocent civilians. And to me that makes it worse, and therefore our resolve and our determination have to be even stronger. So my view is it's our job as government, No. 1, of course, is to do everything that we can to ensure the safety of the public. I think it's a role that's unarguably government's. You might argue about different roles government has, but I think in the role of public safety, you can't argue that position. That is a role of government. Second is to be very aggressive in going after the perpetrators.

You said a couple of weeks ago that Minnesotans should be "alert and careful, but be free." What exactly does that mean?

Well, what I mean by that is that this is a war focused on the civilian population. They're the targets. It's not focused on a base, it's not focused on our military, who are prepared and generally are in good shape that way. But civilians aren't used to this. So what we need to be alert about is, Who is the opponent? And like in the case of the fellow [Zacarias Moussaoui, thought by U.S. justice officials to have been the would-be 20th hijacker] that's right now gotten indicted for the six charges or whatever, they caught him here in Minnesota. How did they catch him? They caught him because someone was alert, because someone saw flags go up in just this person's temperament and what they were trying to do. The flight instructor felt uncomfortable, felt that something was wrong, and he made the phone call. And lo and behold he captured, who knows what this character was going to do.

So that's what I mean by telling the public to be aware, be alert, if they see something that they think isn't quite right or they notice something, hey, make a phone call. But don't allow it to take away from the freedoms that we have of moving about freely in society, because if we allow that to happen then they win. If they can take away America's freedom and America's resolve and everything we have in this country, then ultimately they can be victorious, even though they won't physically win. They could win emotionally, and we can't allow them to win emotionally either. We need to go on with our lives and realize that, yes indeed, life is always a gamble and a risk, you take that when you cross the street.

You mentioned Moussaoui's arrest, and there was also the story a couple months ago about how the Somali community in the Twin Cities may have donated a lot of cash to Al-Itihaad al-Islamiya, believing the organization was a charity, when in fact it had ties to bin Laden and al-Qaida. Then on Nov. 7, President Bush targeted "62 individuals and organizations connected with two terrorist-supporting financial networks," Five of those groups and one of the individuals were in Minnesota. What's going on up there?

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