Back to this war. What's next in Afghanistan?
I think our role is principally to help the anti-Taliban forces to finish them off. To run down, using Afghan assistance, all elements of al-Qaida. To get bin Laden. And then to get American troops entirely out, to bring in Islamic troops -- Turks, Bangladeshis. We should provide some economic and humanitarian aid, but we should not have any troop presence there.
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Why are you so eager to get them out so quickly?
I don't think we ought to have them there. We've made these commitments to the Paks about the Kasmir thing. Plus commitments to the Uzbeks and Tajiks. I mean, there are four nuclear powers over there and no vital interests to the U.S. in that area of the world to justify [our] presence.
Do you think that Pakistan believes we would intervene on their behalf against India?
We're not going to protect them in any war, nor should we. We should try to work something out, then we can say that we regret that we failed and stay out of it.
Back to Eisenhower's "Operation Wetback." One of your signature issues has been limiting legal immigration, taking a firmer line in preventing illegal immigrants from Mexico from entering the U.S. Do you think the tide has turned in support of your view on the matter?
I think we should limit the number of legal immigrants to 250,000 a year, rolled back from the 900,000 who come in legally. But as for the "Buchanan fence," it's already been built. It's on the San Diego border, though the fence only extends into the desert. So, near Douglas, Ariz., there's a mass of illegal aliens. Look, we need a moratorium on legal immigration and we need to halt illegal immigration. We need to begin the systematic deportation of people who are here illegally in the U.S., beginning with those from terrorist countries and those with felony convictions.
But you also express doubt that such reform will happen. Why?
There's a gigantic vested interest in open borders. It comes from the Wall Street Journal, it comes from big business. And now it comes from big labor who sees all kinds of union members in future restaurant workers. And from churches who see immigrants filling up their empty pews. And all the folks who put the idea of the economy ahead of their country.
It does not come from the American people, a vast majority of whom want legal immigration restricted to a low level and illegal immigration stopped. But just like NAFTA we have this virtual democracy where the opinions of the American people simply do not count in the making of policy. Instead it's the dictates of the Supreme Court and the corporations. Politicians realize that the attention span of the people is short. So the business round-table walks in, and they say, "This is it, this is what we want for this session of Congress," and they get it.
Is that what you think about the House version of the economic stimulus package?
You know, I haven't paid much attention to that. I understand they're retroactively eliminating corporate taxes. We could probably do without it."
Buchanan in '04?
Yeah, if the Republicans draft me. (Laughs) I don't have any intention of doing it again.
Are you going back to TV?
I might start talking with [cable channels] after the book tour. But I don't have any expectations. I tell you, before Sept. 11 when all anyone was talking about was Gary Condit, I thought it was just an awful, awful mess. It was demeaning to cable TV; it was just awful. You couldn't put on the TV without finding where Anne Marie [Smith] was parked that night.
How's your show on CNN?
It was canceled.
I'm sorry I asked! (Laughs) I guess the blood bath continues over there.
About the writer
Jake Tapper is Salon's Washington correspondent and the author of "Down and Dirty: The Plot to Steal the Presidency."
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