Those who fall on the side of supporting the integration of gays into the armed forces (or the acknowledgement and acceptance of those who already are serving) see it as a basic civil-rights issue. The Pentagon had to be dragged kicking and screaming before it allowed minorities or women to become soldiers, and the same will probably be necessary before it includes gays, too. Gays even have their own patron saint in Alexander the Great.

On the other side, you have those who believe that having uncloseted gays in the ranks would create a charged locker-room atmosphere -- with anxiety and sexual tension -- thus undermining troop morale and combat effectiveness. With myriad sexual harassment cases -- like the recent revelation that the Army's highest-ranking female, Gen. Claudia Kennedy, was the subject of unwanted advances by a male general -- between men and women, they might argue, why complicate matters further by throwing gays into the mix?

As part of our series on the lives of gays and lesbians in the military following the implementation of "don't ask, don't tell" -- the controversial law enacted by Congress after President Clinton attempted to repeal the gay ban in 1993 -- Salon News convened a panel of experts to debate the policy, seven years, two murders and thousands of discharges later.

Our panel included professor Charles Moskos, a prominent military sociologist at Northwestern University who was an architect of the original policy; retired Col. Grethe Cammermeyer, who successfully battled her discharge from the Army in the courts and wrote about it in her memoir "Serving in Silence," which was made into a television movie starring Glenn Close; and Stacey Sobel, legal director for Servicemembers Legal Defense Network, a Washington organization that provides services to gays and lesbians facing discharge.

Here's the first round of debate:

How has the military environment changed since "don't ask, don't tell" was implemented in '93?

Charles Moskos: It hasn't changed that much. The idea of "don't ask, don't tell," of course, was concerned less with the military than with getting Clinton off the hook on an issue that was sinking the early months of the administration. "Don't ask, don't tell" in some form has been the unwritten rule since World War II. The main difference is that the number of discharges for homosexuality has increased from 800 to 900 a year before "don't ask, don't tell" to approximately 1,300 currently. According to military records, 85 percent of those are "tells" [in other words, people who voluntarily disclose their sexual orientation] rather than seeking people out. What's interesting about "telling" is that it's the quickest way to get out of the military service with an honorable discharge. If one says one is gay, you are out of the military in a matter of days.

There's probably been some abuse of the system, but on the whole, it's what Winston Churchill once said about democracy: It's the worst system possible except for any other. There is more wiggle room for a gay person now than there was previously, but it is by no means an ideal situation for gays in the military.

Stacey Sobel: Since "don't ask, don't tell, don't pursue, don't harass" went into place, SLDN has assisted more than 2,300 service members who have been affected by the policy. Gay discharges have also risen significantly, with 73 percent more people receiving gay discharges in 1999 than in 1993. While Professor Moskos says that 85 percent of the people being discharged "told," he does not reveal why people are coming forward. Service members most often disclose their sexual orientation to their commands because they are being harassed or they are no longer able to lie daily to their co-workers, friends and family in order to avoid being investigated and thrown out of the military. Professor Moskos also says that "telling" is one of the quickest ways of getting out of the military. This statement is not true. It usually takes months for service members to be discharged from the military, including those who face daily harassment from other service members.

Grethe Cammermeyer: With President Clinton's promise of lifting the ban, gay and lesbian servicemembers expected to be freed from the burden of living a lie. "Don't ask, don't tell" has introduced a tremendous stress for them. They now are more alerted to the existing policy and also to fear of being discovered, of being exposed, of being labeled without cause. They now worry they may lose their career without any evidence of misconduct. Since the policy was enacted, there has effectively been no appropriate training to defuse the fear of gays and lesbians serving in the military. There has been a total lack of leadership in the implementation of the policy and recognition of bias, which persists.

Sexual harassment can't be reported for fear of becoming the target of a witchhunt. This certainly was corroborated as Lt. Gen. Claudia Kennedy reported the misconduct of a fellow general. Only days after the report was made public, Gen. Kennedy herself was being investigated for "unrelated" charges. These charges were ultimately dropped, but they certainly set the tone of retaliation as it exists in the military.

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