The man who would be Carson

From Jimmy Kimmel to Colin Quinn to Ellen DeGeneres, there are too many untested talents joining the talk-show fray. J. Keith van Straaten may be the most experienced host of them all. So why isn't he on the air yet?

By Heather Havrilesky

July 19, 2003 | Chevy Chase, Whoopi Goldberg, Pat Sajak, Keenan Ivory Wayans, Martin Short, Howie Mandel, Alan Thicke, Magic Johnson, Rick Dees, Jenny McCarthy. When you consider the sheer volume of celebrities who dove with reckless abandon into the talk-show pool, only to smash head-first into bad reviews and weak ratings, it's amazing that there are always more talk-show wannabes right behind them, ready and willing to do the same flattened-coyote routine.

J. Keith van Straaten, on the other hand, may be the most experienced talk-show host who's never had a show on TV. Since 1998, van Straaten has written, performed and produced a talk show for a live audience in Los Angeles, attracting an eclectic mix of guests, musicians and talented comedians. Along with former Trekkie and high-profile blogger Wil Wheaton, who serves as his amiable yet skillful sidekick, and one-man house band Adam Chester, van Straaten has performed his show, often to sold-out audiences, for several seasons, garnering rave reviews and a devoted local following.

Attending one of van Straaten's shows for the first time is sort of like that episode of "Seinfeld" where Kramer puts up a Merv Griffin set in his living room -- it's tough not to look around for the cameras, or to conclude that van Straaten is under the influence of a dangerous cocktail of medications. But once the stress of the unfamiliar subsides, one thing becomes clear: This guy is extremely good at what he does. What starts as hipster rubbernecking, the kind of appreciative gawking we do in the face of all things novel, dorky and strange, ends with wonder and awe at the fact that he actually pulls it off week after week without a big staff, lots of cash or high-potency pharmaceuticals.

Who better, then, to assess the state of the talk show today? I met van Straaten at Canter's Deli in West Hollywood to eat matzo ball soup and chat about the best and worst new shows, the unbearable lightness of being ironic and the art of surprise.

There are so many different kinds of talents jumping into the talk-show game, despite their utter lack of experience. What do you think makes a good host?

Well, the meat of most talk shows is the interview. That's the heart of the show -- or that's what it's been traditionally. And that seems to be what is least effectively produced nowadays. It's one thing to ask questions that you've planned on before, but there are very few hosts who really seem to be listening and reacting to their guests. It's tough to do an interview that's informative but also entertaining. Either it's just informative or by rote, or it's truly entertaining but it's more about the host than about the guests.

A lot of talk shows, like Jimmy Kimmel's, seem to have more guests with shorter segments. I'm not sure what that's about. I like the way Kimmel starts the show -- he doesn't have to have a traditional monologue. Once in a while they're able to take advantage of the fact that they are live, although they could do that more. I like that he really has a point of view as far as musical guests. But as far as the interviews themselves go ...

A lot of hosts lack the interview skills to pull it off.

Yeah, I guess so. I don't like to sound cocky because I'm not on TV, but you know, it's harder than it looks.

It looks pretty damn hard, actually.

It's hard to make guests look good when they're not naturally funny. If you're lucky, you have someone who's really well-prepared and you can let them do their own thing. But then, I tend to think that's not very interesting, because it's just like you're watching a guest perform stand-up, except they're sitting on a couch. What's fun to me is the spontaneity and the banter and the back and forth and, you know, being able to have a quick wit.

Who are your favorite talk-show hosts on the air now?

I love Bob Costas. I love his HBO show, "On the Record." He's always been one of my heroes in terms of pure interviewing; he does a really well-researched interview. He's able to really go off of the questions so you have a real give-and-take conversation and something to say. I like Bill Maher's show. I don't always agree with him, but I really respect that he really lets his personality come through throughout the show, I respect that he's doing a show with a real point of view, and he's not afraid to be passionate about it. And I think his opening jokes tend to be stronger -- of course he has a whole week to work on them, compared to other guys. Letterman has his good nights, certainly. That's about all I watch, really. Oh, and I like some of Conan's bits. He can get on a roll with a guest every now and then.

I saw Craig Kilborn the other day, and I was surprised at how good he was.

I haven't seen him lately. I just don't think the jokes themselves are that good. And the skits don't seem to go anywhere. But I respect that he's trying to create a kind of vibe, sort of like an after-hours cocktail party kind of a thing. One thing that doesn't happen as much on talk shows anymore, is that sense of willing to be surprised. Whereas, if you look at one of my idols, Steve Allen -- he was actually a guest on my show once. It was one of the highlights of my life. Anyway, on his show, he was so spontaneous and so easygoing with the banter that, no matter who the guest was, or even if the guest didn't show up at all, he could handle it.

The other thing is, there's so much irony in comedy these days. Even though Letterman does it really well and has pioneered it, right now there seems to be a real resistance to just doing slam-bang entertainment. There's a detachment, a pulling away from "I'm here to entertain you, and I'm gonna be energetic and really present myself and fully show up." That's one thing I think is lacking from some of the top shows.

You're right, and it can be a train wreck. If a host is really distant and then it's not going well, he doesn't have any way to get his hands on the wheel again.

That's a good way to put it. It seems like it's not cool right now to do whatever you can to make people laugh without grossing them out or without relying on gimmicks. That's the thing that I really miss, because that's the bottom line, that's what we're here to do: We're here to entertain.

Even David Letterman, as snide as he is, has a huge amount of enthusiasm, and he always manages to fall back on pretending, at least, to be really interested in the person who's sitting there.

Exactly. One of the things that Johnny Carson said was that if the guest looks good, then he looks good. The next morning they're not gonna say, "Such and such celebrity was really funny last night." They're gonna say, "Johnny Carson's show was really funny last night." He's willing to do whatever he can to showcase the guests. A lot of the classic clips from "The Tonight Show" involve him looking foolish or silly, but ultimately he gets the last laugh. Whereas, especially around the time when he was popular, that wasn't one of the trends. You know, you look at Dick Cavett when he was doing his show, he would even say, "Why are you laughing at him and not at me?"

My favorite moments when I'm doing my show, or when I watch other talk shows, is when you ask a couple questions, and then all of a sudden someone will say something and it goes in a completely different direction. That's when the magic happens. So many of these shows are so produced and so prepared. While I think it's important to have researched the guest and to be prepared, you can tell when people are just reciting something, and that's just not very fun for me, as a viewer or as a host.

Next page: "So many hosts come out on their first night and say, 'Can you believe they gave me a show?'"