Well, the coffee shop didn't work because of Starbucks. America has changed; Selby should have invested in coffee shops back then, because back then, in '78, it really was a novel idea. We went through a lot of things of what the dream was. It went from them wanting to open up a club down at Coney Island to his father being a baker and wanting to open a bakery, until eventually I thought that it might add something to Harry's character if he believed in his girl's dream.

I read Jennifer Connelly as saying that all these characters have holes to fill. I'm sure there are many themes, but I thought it was not about the holes but about what happens when they try to fill them. And you seem to be saying that when people try to fill holes things fall apart. That's pretty bleak.

I think that there are holes you can't fill -- bottomless pits. Ultimately the film is about the lengths people will go to escape their realities, and what happens when you chase after a fantasy.

Wait. Why do they have to escape their realities?

Because they're chasing after a dream that's never going to happen. They're not dealing with their now and their reality. Sara's not dealing with her loneliness. She's got this pipe dream that she's going to be on television and that she's going to be loved by millions of people. I think that's what Selby is saying: When you chase after that fantasy, you create a hole in your present, and then you use anything to fill that hole, to forget about the present, to stay believing in that fantasy and that future. And that's why it's not really a drug movie, because anything can fill that hole. It could be tobacco, food, drugs, and ultimately what it really is is hope.

I have five minutes left. I have to ask you about "Batman." Tell me what drew you to it and why you want to develop it.

I am going to write "Batman [V]" with Frank Miller. I'm also writing a science-fiction story, and that's going to be set up in a studio really soon. We'll see which one happens first, because it's not like I'm definitely doing "Batman," which everyone seems to think.

What do you mean not definitely?

Well, I'm going to write it and we'll see what happens. We'll see if they let me make the script that I'm interested in.

Why were you drawn to it?

I just think it's a great story that's been told two different ways in the last 10 years, both interesting, but not the way I would tell it. I think it's an amazing story that touches very deep in the American consciousness.

What part?

There's something about vengeance and justice that are really deep issues for Americans. And vigilantism. But to tell you the truth, I haven't even started on it. We've been talking about doing this for a long time. It seems like it's finally happening, but it's a long road.

Which was the best "Batman"?

For me, I would say No. 2. I liked Michelle Pfeiffer and the Penguin. I liked that whole tone. I think Tim Burton's great.

And who's the best Batman?

Yet to be seen.

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